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Bach's Keyboard music
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virtuoso_735
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly are the differences between the French suites, English suites, and Partitas? They seem pretty similar to me...
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WinterWind_23
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

virtuoso_735 wrote:
What exactly are the differences between the French suites, English suites, and Partitas? They seem pretty similar to me...


I have the same question. Confused

Maybe they are written in the style back in the day, with Gigues and such for each nation?
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Jeliness2
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think maybe, they represent the styles like WW said.
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WinterWind_23
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeliness2 wrote:
i think maybe, they represent the styles like WW said.


Yea, each one has a dance style that makes it English or French. Though I'm stil preplexed about which dances belong to which. Anyone know?
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Philip Daniel
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are very few differences, if any, between the French & English suites; the order & selection of dances that form the suites, for example, do not differ that much, except of course in the vivacious Italian Corrente and graceful French Courante. Bach never intended, in fact, to call these suites "French" or "English"; those were connonations added much later in time Wink.
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virtuoso_735
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I remember hearing tha the "French" and "English" were actually added on afterwards, not to Bach's original intentions. So the only tangible difference between the French and English suites is whether they have a more vivacious Italian Corrente or a graceful French Courante?
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Philip Daniel
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

virtuoso_735 wrote:
Yeah I remember hearing tha the "French" and "English" were actually added on afterwards, not to Bach's original intentions. So the only tangible difference between the French and English suites is whether they have a more vivacious Italian Corrente or a graceful French Courante?

Not so, actually; Bach uses these dances interchangeably in his suites and partitas. So, there really is no difference between these suites in musical content Wink.
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virtuoso_735
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip Daniel wrote:
virtuoso_735 wrote:
Yeah I remember hearing tha the "French" and "English" were actually added on afterwards, not to Bach's original intentions. So the only tangible difference between the French and English suites is whether they have a more vivacious Italian Corrente or a graceful French Courante?

Not so, actually; Bach uses these dances interchangeably in his suites and partitas. So, there really is no difference between these suites in musical content Wink.


Oh ok. So they are mainly the same. I guess it makes sense though to give them names of "French" or "English" since 12 or 18 suites (if you include the partitas) seems to inundate one. Breaking up the suites Bach wrote makes each seem more valuable.
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WinterWind_23
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So then the names don't really have any real purpose? They could be switched and it wouldn't make a difference? French and English suite is basically the same? No discrepancy in form whatsoever?
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virtuoso_735
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the Bach Toccatas originally written for organ or piano? I sometimes hear toccatas for organ, and sometimes for piano. Were they written for ogan, then transcripted for piano? Or are there some that were originally written for piano, and some for organ?
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Philip Daniel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

virtuoso_735 wrote:
Are the Bach Toccatas originally written for organ or piano? I sometimes hear toccatas for organ, and sometimes for piano. Were they written for ogan, then transcripted for piano? Or are there some that were originally written for piano, and some for organ?

Bach wrote seven toccatas originally for clavier and countless others meant to be performed on a multi-manual pipe organ with pedals and stops Mr. Green. He was a succesor to Frescobaldi, Kerrl, & Buxtehude in his toccatas, which contain some of his most imaginative and virtuosic music Wink.
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virtuoso_735
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Philip Daniel wrote:
virtuoso_735 wrote:
Are the Bach Toccatas originally written for organ or piano? I sometimes hear toccatas for organ, and sometimes for piano. Were they written for ogan, then transcripted for piano? Or are there some that were originally written for piano, and some for organ?

Bach wrote seven toccatas originally for clavier and countless others meant to be performed on a multi-manual pipe organ with pedals and stops Mr. Green. He was a succesor to Frescobaldi, Kerrl, & Buxtehude in his toccatas, which contain some of his most imaginative and virtuosic music Wink.


Ok I see. Indeed the Bach toccatas are some of the most creative works for keyboard. I only heard very few yet I must say they are very profound and masterful.
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WinterWind_23
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are they still recorded on organ? Can they be played on piano? Or are they transcripted for piano now?
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Philip Daniel
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WinterWind_23 wrote:
Are they still recorded on organ? Can they be played on piano? Or are they transcripted for piano now?

The organ toccatas are fundamentals in the virtuoso organ repertory. The toccatas for organ are, for the most part, unplayable on the pianoforte because of use of the pedal keyboard and organ stops. There have been arrangements for three hand piano and for four hand piano, however; none come to mind instantly, but I'll do a little research Wink.
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Helling
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WinterWind_23 wrote:
So then the names don't really have any real purpose? They could be switched and it wouldn't make a difference? French and English suite is basically the same? No discrepancy in form whatsoever?


The English suites are supposed to be named that because they were written for an Englishman, but generally it is unclear why they have that name. There isn't anything more English about them than about the French suites.

Generally, the English suites are more difficult to play, even though the French suites also have their tricky parts (especially some of the courantes and gigues). Also, some movements of the French suites are more overburdened with ornamentation than anything Bach wrote (as drastically exemplified by e.g. the sarabande from suite no. 6), so it's good to practice all those nachschlags / mordents.
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