Login or Register to hide advertisements

Piano Stores (and my totally irrational hatred of them)

The piano: historical and mechanical information
Post a reply

Piano Stores (and my totally irrational hatred of them)

Postby Goldberg » 04 Jan 2005, 18:51

Well, yesterday I went up to meet my step mum at the mall for a quick shopping ordeal and, since I was right in the area, decided to check out the two very close piano stores--H&H and Brook Mays, the latter of which carries Yamahas, some random brands, and Bechstein (as of a few weeks ago...I was shocked too, but that's why I wanted to check it out--mind you, it's Bechstein, and not C.Bechstein, but the salesman said they do have C. Bechsteins at their other dealership which is all the way on the other side of Houston). Actually, I didn't bother with H&H very much because they never seem to have any interesting pianos (ie, no concert grands or anything of the sort, and nothing exotic that you can't find elsewhere), and instead went straight to Brook Mays. It was about 6pm when I got there.

Anyway, I spoke briefly with a truly nice older man (he didn't have the usual "salesman niceness" about him; he was just a well-tempered guy), told him that I had a Yamaha once but switched to Steinway--he grumbled temporarily there but I mollified his potential discomfort by explaining that my old teacher had a beautiful C7 at her house, which was my first large piano to play on, and I gave him a line about wanting to try a new one in the store cos "I hadn't played one for a while". Mind you, Yamahas aren't my favourite of instruments, but my teacher's was particularly well-maintained and even now I remember it's rounded--not sharp--sound and superlative touch.

Well, he showed me to a C7 and told me he wouldn't mind if I played a little; I had already reconned the store and no one was doing much of anything...just a few salespeople milling around, chatting people up on the phone and whatnot, so I just assumed that, if anything, they would enjoy a little background music. Truth is, I just had this insatiable urge to perform for people outside my family, because I haven't been on a concert stage of any kind since last July (and, really, that wasn't much--February was my last "important" recital). Well, anyway, I made myself comfortable and started doing my usual warm-up improvisation, keeping the volume down like a pianist might be expected to do in a fancy restaraunt (I was minding the phonecalls), and it wasn't long before I realised how horrible the instrument was that I played. It was nothing like my old teacher's instrument--the sound was stereotypically tinny, sharp, recalcitrant, and the touch seemed uneven and spongy. I resolved to play anyway, telling myself that the BEST reason to play in piano stores is to get a feel for playing on random instruments because you never know what you're going to get...anyway, after getting "used" to it, my improv started to pick up a little steam and, since no one seemed to be on the phone anymore, I thought it'd be nice to attempt to entertain them, even in the slightest.

Well, no such luck. The old man I talked to came over and told me calmly that there were some serious customers waiting for his assistance, and I really shouldn't play while they decide on their piano. I understood immediately, because, afterall, that's what would be expected at any piano store, even Forshey's downtown, where the salesman knows me very well and usually lets me play at will in the backroom D's. Anyway, the old man generously showed me to a small recital hall in the back of the store with a C3 in it; he told me that I could play whatever I wanted to without any worries and then left to attend to his clients. Well, I quickly replaced the bench with a more acceptable chair from the 30 or so situated around the piano, and this time sat down and started playing the 6th Hungarian Rhapsody. Unfortunately, the instrument was horribly prepped and had an even worse sound than the C7, taking into account that the C3 is smaller. But I was just trying to have some fun and imagine myself giving a recital to a packed room (the fantasies...lol).

It couldn't have been a minute later when another salesman, this one younger, taller, skinnier, and appropriately "salesman-y" (fake smile, greased hair, arrogant attitude), burst into the room and waved his hand to get my attention. I stopped and reluctantly allotted my attention to the irritating man, expecting the worst. "Sorry to have to say this," he said, "but it's a little unconvenient"--yes, he said UNconvenient...I had to pause and ask myself if he really said it--"to be teaching a lesson when someone is pounding away on a piano through the walls." Here, I glanced up at him to see if he was actually serious, and since he seemed to be, I hopped up from the chair, my mind swamped with things I WANTED to say which I refrained from saying, if you know what I mean. He'd stopped me in the middle of the octaves section of the rhapsody, which I had been doing a *damn fine* job of playing, if I don't say so myself, despite having a crummy instrument, and then referred to my performance as "pounding away," which clearly distracted from a more important "lesson" through the walls. I wondered if the guy had even heard of Liszt before, and if so, I wondered if he'd ever played any Liszt. I think the answer might well have been negative on both accounts... :roll:

I somehow managed to contain myself after hopping off the bench and, in a quite pleasant voice (which I'm good at feigning), told him I understood entirely, even though I thought he should consult with the more down-to-earth man in the other room, who explicitly told me that I could play whatever I wanted in the recital hall. I furthered my appearance of being kind and mild-mannered by asking him about the Bechsteins they allegedly carried, and he was quick to hustle me out of the room to show me the Bechstein 190 on the showroom, which ironically had been situated right next to the C7 I'd played earlier (I hadn't had time before to look around much). I stared at it, hoping he might be willing to let me play a few measures of the Rhapsody again to see what it sounded like on a REAL instrument (though, heaven knows the piano was probably prepped in a similarly disasterous manner as the others...the thought makes me shudder), but again, no dice. He "apologised" once more, and told me to come back in the morning, when they *might* not have to tell me to stop playing. I smiled at him and then told him, in my controlled and affable tone, that "although the offer does seem appetizing, I might instead attempt to drive into Houston and treat myself to an actual piano store, rather than falsely satisfy myself by running willy-nilly to these furniture shops." And before he could reply, I had smiled once more at him, turned around, and exitted through the door immediately behind the Bechstein.

Now, certainly some of you are wondering why I felt so bothered by the whole "lessons" thing. I might add, then, that on my way out I caught sight of his student, who had been placed on a Yamaha digital that was off to the side but STILL ON THE SHOWROOM. He also played with no headphones...in other words, anyone could listen to him and he could listen to anyone in the room. That means that even the "serious customers" who were bothering the first salesman I talked to would 1) interrupt the student if they expected to try out the piano before buying it (which is apparently RIDICULOUS in the minds of the salespeople, I guess) and 2) the student would reduce the quality of the customer's trial runs by interjecting his elementary jazz and new age in between their own pieces. My point is, having lessons on the show room floor is completely ludicrous. Does anyone agree with me here? Or am I completely off base?

Secondly, it'd be nice if their recital hall were actually *soundproof* which apparently it isn't....not like anything in the store was of particularly high quality.....

Thirdly, salespeople should treat people in their store with respect, especially if they are obvious serious and semi well-trained pianists, like myself. I'm certainly not good by most of our standards, but I'd reckon that at the time I was the best in the store, and that means something coming from my self-degrading and pessimistic mouth! I've been shocked time and again with regards to the general ignorance--in some cases--that Ph.D.'s in the field exhibit, but salespeople at these stores.......eurgh! Do they know ANYTHING?? It's so bloody frustrating. All they're there to do, in their minds, is sell furniture to people who want a "nice piece of furniture", etc. (either that or they have a "prodigy" for a child and need to buy the best piano they have, and fast, because the kid is SO great they don't have a minute to spare....)

I'm sorry to say, I was highly disappointed. It was the first time I've been in such a store for many years (instead, I've visited the two exemplary stores downtown, specialising in Steinways, Bosendorfers, Solers, Foresters, Schimmels, Petrofs, Estonias, etc's---and most of the time I could have sat and practiced in the store for hours) and I didn't spend more than ten minutes in it before I was moved and then kicked out. I didn't even get the impression that the salespeople were educated in much of anything about pianos (their training might have been "tell them that it's black, it looks good, and then say it has a "bold, round tone and butter-smooth keys that match the finest concert grands in the world"---that'll impress them!!") and it seemed like not only did they insult my intelligence but also insult my playing ability, if in subtle ways.

It's ridiculous. It's first time I've been in such a store for a long time, and it's going to be another extended period before I even think about going back to such a store.

Mind you, I don't mean to offend anyone who has bought a piano from H&H or Brook Mays or...any store "like that". I know the people on this forum are all good pianists who know their stuff, and clearly don't fall into the typical line of customers which I described above. My opinions here are based mostly on generalisations gathered from past experiences.
User avatar
Goldberg
Incorrigible Failure
 
Posts: 923
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 23:12
Location: Cygnus X-1
Top

Postby calebrw » 04 Jan 2005, 22:28

ps: you should make a rant section lol
calebrw
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 369
Joined: 08 Nov 2004, 21:43
Location: MPLS, MN, USA
Top

Postby JBJ » 05 Jan 2005, 00:11

.. then it's clearly not irrational.

(Yes, I read the entire thing; and I share countless similar experiences. However, I've never managed the required articulation to tell off a clerk so perfectly.)
JBJ
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 26 Aug 2004, 12:06
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Top

Postby Fryderyk » 05 Jan 2005, 06:34

It was fun reading actually :!:

Fryderyk
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 183
Joined: 16 Dec 2004, 18:32
Top

Postby lace_panties » 18 Mar 2005, 17:19

At least you HAVE piano stores! In England, there's like nothing. literally. you have to drive for about TWO HOURS
lace_panties
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 24
Joined: 06 Mar 2005, 16:15
Location: Banned!
Top

Postby citrine_peridot » 26 Mar 2005, 16:31

i went to H&H on Thursday with a friend (who was looking for an Irish flute.)
now I know why you didn't bother going there, 90% of what they have is Kawai(actually there is a pleasing one which is as old as my grandpa, i just don't remember the brand) , and i counldn't even find a bench when trying them out, as expected, they didn't have any good sheet music at all. And one more trivia: there was a perfect-pitched tuner kept telling me which key i was in : " C sharp minor! Oh, this has 4 flats!A-minor !" (i looked at him and said "wow, you have perfect pitch, that's so cool and thinking:"dude, i know what i'm playing")




Apparently, there is no other place appropriate for my complain.

citrine_peridot
The "Pedal-Eater"
 
Posts: 645
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 17:12
Top

Postby Goldberg » 26 Mar 2005, 17:06

Heh, I'm glad you took the time to share in my agony...

Yes, H&H is pretty horrible. I dunno if I already said this, but once, a LONG time ago (I was still rather ignorant about pianos, but as it turns out I still ended up being more experienced than the man who helped us) I went to that H&H on 1960, just to randomly look around, and this guy showed us into the "special recital hall that only special customers are allowed to go into" lol. Actually, I had played a recital there a few months before so I was just like "ok, big deal."

Well, anyway, inside the hall was a Shigeru Kawai, and he couldn't stop talking about how great it was--his big deal was something like, "This is a $180K piano!! And yet we're selling it for $60K!!" which I knew was a whole lot of bs, of course, and he smiled and asked me to play it so I could hear how perfect it was. I played it--the piano being the same I'd played at the recital--rather indifferently, but when I stopped playing (it wasn't after long), I humoured him by pretending to have enjoyed it. Then he said, "well! Now that you've played THIS piano, I'll let you come and play on a Steinway (this was about a year or even two before I got my own Steinway, but I still knew the name). Everyone who comes in here says they think Steinway is the best, and are absolutely in love with it, but then they play THIS Shigeru Kawai and are completely blown away!"

So he showed my step mum and I over to a worn-down Steinway...eh...M I think...from 1927, with the old-style keys and the whole bit. He offered me to play, and said that it wouldn't take long for me to figure out which instrument was superior. Of course, they hadn't done much work on the Steinway because, I assume, they wanted to have it there to do exactly what the salesguy was doing by making it look horrible compared to the Kawais and Baldwins (btw, the Steinway was at a killer price of $26K I think); so it was slightly out of tune and needed work on the voicing in general. But I sat down and played it and, I tell you, up until that day it was the nicest piano I'd ever played, and it wasn't even my first Steinway! It had such character and depth, a brilliant action, especially for a 70+ year old piano, and despite its minor technical flaws, it was virtually perfect! I played that thing for at least 10 minutes, and with each passing minute I could sense the salesman's ego deflating...

Afterwards, I was sure to remark that, indeed, I had been shown the better piano of the two; the Steinway was scores beyond the S. Kawai, and after that the salesman just kind of left us alone, saying, "well, I guess I don't know too much about these pianos. Actually, I'm a drummer and guitarist primarily..."
One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art.
-Oscar Wilde

You know, some people just have natural talents-like some people play the piano but aren't very tall.
-Noodle pirate
User avatar
Goldberg
Incorrigible Failure
 
Posts: 923
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 23:12
Location: Cygnus X-1
Top

Postby B8HVNPNO » 15 Apr 2005, 11:51

My goodness...

If I was given that kind of treatment in a piano store, I would be fairly unlikely to return to such a place on expense of the waste of time, and I would be very unlikely to even consider purchasing anything there. :)

Thankfully, I've never had any such experience. I love spending a few hours in a high end piano store. A few months ago I went to see my colleagues (both the people and the pianos) at Remenyi in Toronto, and loved every minute of it. The salesman wanted me to play every Boston and Steinway they had in top prep and it was just awesome.

Here's a bit of advice if you ever get in a NICE piano store. Just improvise. You'll never hit a wrong note doing that. :DThe fellow told me that it was a long time since he had heard a Boston played as beautifully as I did. Now that's a salesman's compliment. :)

I am, as you seem to be, a Steinway Loyalist. Bostons are a great deal and they have the sweetness and clarity of a Steinway minus the power. I used to be a bit prejudiced against them because they are made in the Kawai factory, but after playing them for a while I now believe they are a piano I could recommend to someone other than a Steinway. :)

And I don't know what so many people like Yamaha for. They are, IMO, quite musically inert. And Kawai pianos are, IMO, musically dead. :)

Anyway, I know I have expensive tastes, but I am reasonable in that for all the miracles Fazioli wreaks, I am still of the opinion that a Steinway Model B is my ideal instrument. :)

B8HVNPNO
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 13 Apr 2005, 11:55
Location: Ontario, Canada
Top

Postby Goldberg » 15 Apr 2005, 13:33

Heh, as I might have mentioned earlier I still maintain that the Bechstein is my preferred instrument, though since they are rather uncommon (at least the much more enjoyable C. Bechstein; ordinary Bechsteins aren't really that great) I also love Bosendorfers. I still have yet to play a Fazioli, though, but hopefully my upcoming trip to London will remedy that!

Anyway, I certainly have nothing against Steinway--I own an M at my house and it indeed came from a REAL piano store. The only reason why I don't go to that one more often, or to the Bosendorfer dealer right next to it, is because it's too far away for just a casual drive. An hour's drive to downtown, it is, and that's not fun in Houston.

The Steinway dealer does carry Boston and Essex, though, and I can't say I've ever really been impressed by either one, but I also haven't given either one a thorough "workout" yet either.

Yamahas and Kawais truly are crap instruments. However, to this day, I still remember my old teacher's 20yr-old Yamaha grand that was just gorgeous. I probably mentioned this, and I hate repeating myself but I'm too lazy to go re-read my posts heh, but a few years ago my teacher left for Tawain over the summer and gave me the keys to her house, so every day for about two weeks I would go in and practice on the grand for about 7 hours (I still had my Yamaha upright at home). I thought it was just the greatest thing...well, it was.

It also seems appropriate to describe my experiences, briefly, at New York's Steinway Hall, which I'm sure several people here have been to. It's not really a complaint, though, just a short story:

My parents essentially decided to split up, primarily because my step-mum wanted to shop for girly things and dad and I wouldn't have any of it (and she complained about being dragged into a piano store lol). So my dad and I went into Steinway Hall, dressed almost like total yobbos (I had my somewhat superannuated leather jacket and gloves on, and my hair was messed up, and dad wasn't much better), to see what the big fuss was about. We were greeted by a condenscending, but not rude, salesman who invited us to tour the store and play whatever caught our eye (though he did point out a few instruments that were particularly special that we should play) and we did so for about 20 minutes, almost entirely by ourselves. At the time I didn't know much else except for Beethoven's op. 27 no. 1 sonata, a good handful of the Goldberg Variations, and short Chopin pieces and excerpts from random pieces, as well as my improvisational "repertoire" which wasn't very impressive at the time (I'd been playing for about 3, but close to 4 years I think).

I enjoyed myself for some time in the first room, then we went a little farther back in the store and started playing with the myriad M's, B's, whatever else there was (I think there were some Hamburg models as well, but at the time I wouldn't have known the difference). Eventually, a small crowd of Russians, or Eastern Europeans judging by the language, shuffled in, somewhat circling around a boy a few years older than I was (I'd say he was 17 or 18 actually, and I was about 14). They had a humorously posh outwardly attitude about them, you know, pompous and what not, and were there basically to practice their snobbery it seems. They refused to openly acknowledge the presence of my father and I, being dressed as we were (I suppose), and instead quietly instructed the boy to sit down and begin testing the pianos. They carried on their routine for about 15 minutes thusly: the boy would sit down with a certain mystical motion, as if he were onstage at Carnegie Hall (which is directly across the street from Steinway Hall), and then proceed to play the first 6 bars of the Appasionata. After completing his task, he would, apparently, mutter a few words of indifference, scratch his long-ish hair a little bit, stand up, and move on to the next piano which, although it was essentially the same model, year, and location as the one next to it, might supposedly have been vastly superior to his first choice. Once more, the Appasionata's opening measures were completed, again with an imposed aura of mysticism, he would discuss the piano quietly with his parents and then move on again.

It was very strange, but then again maybe that sort of thing is quite common in such piano stores. In any event, my father and I quickly lost interest in the ceremony and decided that we'd go ask about their B's and D's, which were mysteriously absent from the rooms we'd been in (except for one or two B's, as I mentioned earlier).

We found the condenscending salesman, who surprisingly offered to take us up to "the Rubinstein room" despite the obvious workload he had on his desk, and sure enough he took us up the elevator, showed us the Rachmaninoff Room (where Rachmaninoff would practice before recitals across the street), and then into the Rubinstein Room, obviously a sort of memorial to Arthur (they have a couple glass cases with photos and plaster castings of his hands, etc.)--in the Rubinstein Room for those who haven't been, are probably about, oh, between 10 and 15 D's and several B's. Don't quote the numbers, I don't have a clear enough memory! But it's quite a lot, and certainly more than I'd ever seen beforehand! We hit the jackpot, and it wasn't at all what we were expecting.

Unfortunately at the time I was a little overwhelmed and didn't exactly know what to do with all of those intimidating and prodigious pianos...plus my dad was getting outwardly bored and his patience for the whole event was running down to a thread, and I knew that it wouldn't be long before mum would want to meet up with us again. So, I played around with as many as I could in about 5 minutes and, knowing that my creative resources were running about as dry as my father's patience, I suggested that we leave.

It was great fun, though, and really quite educational, in a hands-on kinda way. With piano stores like that, and the much smaller ones in downtown Houston, it's hard to imagine why anyone would willingly step foot into H&H and Brook Mays! I guess I just took the plunge out of boredom.

In fact, I might even do it again someday to make a commotion and generally just irritate the Neanderthals who run the place...
One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art.
-Oscar Wilde

You know, some people just have natural talents-like some people play the piano but aren't very tall.
-Noodle pirate
User avatar
Goldberg
Incorrigible Failure
 
Posts: 923
Joined: 25 Aug 2004, 23:12
Location: Cygnus X-1
Top

Postby tony » 12 Jun 2005, 15:07

I used to be in love with the steinway pianos ,but know time has gone by and i am beggining to care more for the kawai pianos rather then the stienways! :roll:
tony
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 368
Joined: 03 Apr 2005, 22:59
Location: Polska
Top

Postby Ash_Mofidi » 20 Nov 2005, 15:02

tony wrote:I used to be in love with the steinway pianos ,but know time has gone by and i am beggining to care more for the kawai pianos rather then the stienways! :roll:

Hi tony how do you do? :D

Ash_Mofidi
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 14:59
Top

Postby tony » 20 Nov 2005, 21:30

hmmmmmm have we met before? :roll:nice to meet you Ash! :)
tony
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 368
Joined: 03 Apr 2005, 22:59
Location: Polska
Top

Postby jre58591 » 21 Nov 2005, 00:19

tony wrote:hmmmmmm have we met before? :roll:nice to meet you Ash! :)

you have met ash mofifi. you met me too on the chopinfiles forums, which is now 6 feet under.
jre58591
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 222
Joined: 12 May 2005, 01:13
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Top

Postby Ash_Mofidi » 21 Nov 2005, 08:06

jre58591 wrote:
tony wrote:hmmmmmm have we met before? :roll:nice to meet you Ash! :)

you have met ash mofifi. you met me too on the chopinfiles forums, which is now 6 feet under.

Nice to meet you too,tony :D
jre I'm not mofifi :evil:

Ash_Mofidi
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 20 Nov 2005, 14:59
Top

Postby jre58591 » 21 Nov 2005, 09:40

Ash_Mofidi wrote:
jre58591 wrote:
tony wrote:hmmmmmm have we met before? :roll:nice to meet you Ash! :)

you have met ash mofifi. you met me too on the chopinfiles forums, which is now 6 feet under.

Nice to meet you too,tony :D
jre I'm not mofifi :evil:

oopa sorry. you can blame my tiredness on that.
jre58591
Registered Musician
 
Posts: 222
Joined: 12 May 2005, 01:13
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Top

Next

Post a reply

Return to Pianoforte

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron