Familiarization of Keys

[nathf]

You are totally wrong. Everything you written is just opposite.

I believe you're wrong in saying that.

What would be the point of having different keys if they were all the same?

Dude don't you listen to music? You can SO tell the difference if you listen to pieces in different keys!

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Yes, I know all keys are different in pitch, I'm not stupid! If you listen to a piece in A Major then transpose it down to F Major, you obviously will notice it is lower than it was before. However, the feel of the piece remains intact. Keys (key signatures not notes) are all just a means of placing down notes at relative pitches from eachother imo, then rhythm/dynamics/meter etc are applied to make the piece complete.

Say you have a happy, lively, energetic piece in D major. If you transpose it up to F# Major, you still get a very similar response in feel/emotion because of the way the harmonies and melodies in it are arranged, not based on what key its in. You do notice that it is higher than before but the feel stays the same because the notes still have the same relative distances to eachother as they had before transposition. Just because you may have heard a sad sounding piece in C# minor, doesn't make anything in say G# minor less sad. If all composers had a habit of writing everything sad/nostalgic in A minor, then you'd probably tell me that A minor is a very sad key to write in based on the pieces you've heard in it. I find this quite absurd. That's why I said "I don't get it.".

Tell me, if you took Chopin's Ab Major polonaise and transposed it to A Major, would it feel any less heroic - I don't think so. You might be irritated by it because you've listened to it in it's original key many times, and can hear the pitches are a semitone less than they were before (if you've trained your ear to some degree of 'perfect pitch' recognition by now), but if you're relatively unfamiliar with the piece, you wouldn't really notice (and if you haven't listened to it for a while). I bet after you start listening for a bit, you will even forget it sounds transposed (that's how it is for me anyway). You would probably appreciate the piece the same way other people do, and feel the same emotions. That being only half true, because there is no real way to tell if two people are feeling the same way (you cant exactly prove me wrong for this reason, neither can I you). It would still sound 'herioc'. It wouldn't begin to sound nostalgic, sad, less lively, etc. It is the placement of the notes relative to eachother and what I said before (rhythm, dynamics and so on) that are important. Now, if you were to keep it in Ab Major, and scramble up the notes, that would REALLY alter the feeling you get from it upon taking the music in. Am I more clear in stating my opinion now?

[PJF]

The Heroic Polonaise would sound silly in A major, too bright and declamatory. The Polonaise would sound good in E-flat major, G major or B major, but not D major, A major, C major, E major, or F major. I can't explain my logic.

[nathf]

Well Ill try listen to it transposed in a few keys when I get home (hoping midi quailty will be enough to see what you mean). Maybe it is true that if you are used to a key a piece may sound different in some way depending on the key, this would be purely a subjective thing. Well I've never noticed it with myself anyway. But hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion right?

[johnlink]

Sound is light's sister. At first glance, it would seem that all tones produced by the piano are without any special properties, other than their respective pitches. But just as light is made of waves of differing wavelengths (hue) and amplitudes (brightness), so is sound (pitch and volume). The extremes of the visible spectrum (red and violet) can be produced with the smallest change of wavelength, even the tiniest difference of hue can be easily detected by our eyes. I can tell you with a great deal of certainty whether a car is green or black or red, without thinking; it's automatic. I don't know why green is "green" or red is "red"; all I know is that they are what they are. I can also tell, with the same certainty, the difference between E-flat Major and D-flat major (E-flat major is more velvety sounding than D-flat major); to my ears they have different "colors"; they are what they are. Its not something involving conscious thought. It's instinctual.

We see different colors because we have different types of cone cells in our eyes that respond differently to different frequencies of light (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cells). As far as I know there is no analog to cone cells in the auditory mechanism, which is consistent with my experience of pitch as NOT being divided into regions analogous to colors of light.

John Link

[PJF]

Well, of course the ears differ physiologically from the eyes; this I know. (I was speaking more of the physical properties of light and sound (which I know are very different in practice) to draw parallels.) Just as the eyes can distinguish subtle differences in color, the ears hear subtlties of sound. Obviously, this is not a perfect analogy; but given the subjective nature of my comment and the fact that I have perfect pitch, it's the best way I can explain the distinct differences I hear between pitches.

[johnlink]

What differences do you hear between Db major and C# major? How would you characterize each of those keys?

[MindenBlues]

What differences do you hear between Db major and C# major? How would you characterize each of those keys?

On piano those are the same keys, so same tone and same feeling. The only difference is that it is coded with 7 # or 5 b. So for piano or every other instrument at which the pitch of the 12 half notes are fixed, there is no difference in the tone, so it must have the same characteristic, isn't it very logic????
For instance, Bach WTC1, the prelude&fugue in C#major is printed in two versions in my book, as C# major or Db major. Sounds of course the same, so just personal preference for sharps or flats for score reading, right?

Or do you refer to instruments with flexible pitch like violin or voice?

[PJF]

What differences do you hear between Db major and C# major? How would you characterize each of those keys?

To my ears, every tone and key sound unique; it's impossible to make any sort of empirical observations of how or what or I hear.

[juufa72]

Anyone ever hear Beethoven's Piece through all 12 keys? If so, what is the sequencing/logical way of going through the 12 keys?

[PJF]

Start at C and follow the circle of fifths, alternating major with minor.

[nathf]

Maybe in this case, but not always. There are a lot of ways to change keys. Another example might be from say, C major to A minor by means of the dominant of A (that is E7). Play a melody in C major, for three bars. On the fourth bar, change the accompaniment (also trying to lead the melody to resolve to A) to E7 tonality, that way you resolve A minor. The next four bars are really in the key of A minor (the relative minor of the first key), etc.

It will sound different if you try to do this when in a minor key, because the 3rd note of a minor is lower than that in a major, so using the same pivot chord will sound a bit wierd so you'd avoid key changing like this again (eg CM -> Am -> F#m (relative major of AM) ). Instead you might prolong the Am, and at some point switch to AM to do this key change routine.