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Your Ultimate Goal Piece

Discussion of stress, skills and technique associated with the performance of this instrument.
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Postby Catz on Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:08 pm

Alkan Concerto for solo piano.
hahahhahha
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Postby PJF on Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:17 am

I would love to play Rachmaninov's D Minor Concerto. I tried to learn it last year, but my technical ability and practice habits were not quite good enough. I think that after I master Chopin's 27 etudes and his 2 concertos, my technique will be so developed, "The Rach 3" should be within my abilities. Probably in about three years.
Per Sapientiam Felicitas!

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Postby jre58591 on Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:13 am

alkan's complete op 39. now thats a goal that could take a lifetime.
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Postby keyla_c on Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:41 pm

I want to encourage you with this post that every draem is possible!

let's start with exactly two years and three month ago. I played J.S.Bachs prelude in C from 48 preludes and fuges at a competition. I practiced very long for it and I played it very slowly. The Jury told me it was awful... imagine how I felt :(
one month or so later I heard Liszts 'liebestraum' (dream of love or whatever it's called in english) and, not knowing how difficult it is, I asked my teacher whether I could play it. he FORBID me. of course.
but this piece made me love piano music and when I first realized its difficulty it became my ultimate goal piece... a goal I was far away from at this time!

I started practicing- practicing a lot.
about half a year later I was able to play the first page- my teacher shouted at me, trying to make sure I would never waste my time with this illusion agian. I told him I wouldn't. but I did ;)

three month ago I played 'clair de lune' from debussy. teachers from my music school who never spoke with me before came to me just to tell me how much they like my way of interpreting it. and that enouraged me. I started leaning the Liebestraum again (without telling my teacher about it ;)
for the last 6 weeks I practiced from 3 to 8 hours a day and I finally managed with success! I'm able to play it now
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Postby beethoven on Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:40 am

Indeed that is very true. If you really want to achieve something and you believe in it, then you will achieve it.
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Postby dnephi on Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:09 pm

beethoven wrote:Indeed that is very true. If you really want to achieve something and you believe in it, then you will achieve it.
Not quite true. You must have the required mental and physical and emotional abilities. My friend with Asperger's friend can't do it, no matter how much he wants it.

@ PJF, those concerti are great piano pieces, and the Etudes are amazing, but to master them all first is an incredible goal. I personally would just choose the Etudes that I like and examine which technical aspects are most required.
And I think you might want to examine some Liszt Etudes for technical requirements that would be more present in Rachmaninoff's work. I wish you the best of luck in all of this and I want to hear how you progress. I share the similar goal, but, yea, it's too hard for me now.
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Postby beethoven on Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:41 pm

dnephi wrote:
beethoven wrote:Indeed that is very true. If you really want to achieve something and you believe in it, then you will achieve it.
Not quite true. You must have the required mental and physical and emotional abilities. My friend with Asperger's friend can't do it, no matter how much he wants it.




Very true.

At the moment my goal piece is Granados spanish dances.
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Postby dnephi on Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:59 pm

beethoven wrote:
dnephi wrote:
beethoven wrote:Indeed that is very true. If you really want to achieve something and you believe in it, then you will achieve it.
Not quite true. You must have the required mental and physical and emotional abilities. My friend with Asperger's friend can't do it, no matter how much he wants it.




Very true.

At the moment my goal piece is Granados spanish dances.

Cool. My teacher played them at a recital in Florida, I think. I have never heard them, but hear they're good.
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Postby PJF on Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:04 am

dnephi wrote:
beethoven wrote:Indeed that is very true. If you really want to achieve something and you believe in it, then you will achieve it.
Not quite true. You must have the required mental and physical and emotional abilities. My friend with Asperger's friend can't do it, no matter how much he wants it.

@ PJF, those concerti are great piano pieces, and the Etudes are amazing, but to master them all first is an incredible goal. I personally would just choose the Etudes that I like and examine which technical aspects are most required.
And I think you might want to examine some Liszt Etudes for technical requirements that would be more present in Rachmaninoff's work. I wish you the best of luck in all of this and I want to hear how you progress. I share the similar goal, but, yea, it's too hard for me now.



I'd like to hear about your progress, too. Thanks for the encouragement!

Here's some words about my current project.

Liszt doesn't interest me right now, as a long term project, for good reason. I know myself well enough, that I would drive myself to either injury or insanity, in the attempt at Lisztian virtuosity. I'm too ambitious and driven to risk it. The problem I face is, once I start a project, I must finish it, to the n'th degree. I could never be satisfied playing only some of Liszt, I would feel compelled to learn all of it. (Although not recently practiced, I do know several of Liszt's pieces.) So now, I concentrate on Chopin (and Bach, Beethoven and Mozart) and composition. My plate is full. Scriabin, Liszt, Debussy, Scarlatti, Rachmaninoff and Shostakovich, et al., will come later.

I listen to everything. My nighttime habit is to listening to recordings while following along with the score. When I finally play one of these well listened pieces, I'm so familiar with the sheet music and the melody, I learn it very quickly. Listening is a great form of practice, too often underestimated.

I read everything I can get my hands on. If it's a book about the piano, I've probably read it. Learning is a fountain of inspiration.

About the Chopin etudes, one day in May 2002, for no particular reason, I decided to learn them. At first, they were way beyond my ability. At the time, it seemed more likely for me to run a three-minute-mile, than to play these apparently impossible pieces. I felt the cruel hand of reality strike me down. I was afraid.

In the early months, I constantly, obsessively wondered what the outcome of this endeavor would be. Without a single second's respite, I talked myself into believing that, even though at that particular moment, I didn't know how, I could play them. Bypassing the hindering notion that I might not succeed, required a terrifying leap into the unknown.


I persisted; month after seemingly endless month; emotions ranging the full spectrum. Voratiously reading all things pianistic, my frame of mind gradually matured; from self-doubt to confidence, frustration to motivation, rage to euphoria, angst to peace, depression to joy. Armed with knowledge and courage, I pressed on.

Nearly two years into it, my pace quickend. After spending twenty months and hundreds of hours on the 10/1, I began learning other etudes. Over the next two years, I surprised myself by fairly well mastering all of opus 10, and part of opus 25. In June of 2006, I began work on the E minor concerto, and memorized it in only ten weeks. I'll begin work on his F minor concerto in June of 2007. I hope to have both concertos very well learned, if not mastered, by Fall 2009.


I now see myself as a developing Chopin specialist. My lifetime goal is to master all of Chopin. My decade-goal is to have all 27 etudes, 27(sic) preludes, four scherzos, four ballades, ten mazurkas, twenty-one nocturnes and two concertos truly mastered by Fall of 2010. If I can do that, and if my upcoming competitions go well, I'll have a repertoire capable of supporting at least a modest career in performance. At this point, the task at hand has shrunk to tangible proportions, thank God.

Liszt will have his day.
:wink:
Per Sapientiam Felicitas!

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Postby dnephi on Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:59 am

PJF wrote:My comments in italics
I'd like to hear about your progress, too. Thanks for the encouragement!

Here's some words about my current project.

Liszt doesn't interest me right now, as a long term project, for good reason. I know myself well enough, that I would drive myself to either injury or insanity, in the attempt at Lisztian virtuosity. I'm too ambitious and driven to risk it. The problem I face is, once I start a project, I must finish it, to the n'th degree.
I know what you mean. I heard about the TE's from my mother's graduate music composition class where they were lectured on the musical aspects of the Mazeppa for three weeks. Incredible! I had to hear this piece. I saw it on google video. I was shocked and amazed. I could not believe the intensity of the drama and the pathos of the situation. I watched the video every day for weeks. I didn't dream I could play it. I borrowed the score from the library one day to see what it looked like, and, possessed by some fit of youthful aspiration, I attempted it. I can't remember what it was like, learning it at first. I just read through it slowly in April I think, deciding to seriously practice it later. I was not technically ready, and certainly not technically ready to choose the 24-24 fingering, which I did. I practiced it in addition to my lesson materials. When I realized how much work I had put in and I wasn't close to having learned it, I could have given up, but the desire to not let my efforts go to waste led me to the conclusion you had in the paragraph below. I practiced and practiced and practiced. All that remains is polishing and deciding how I am going to play the slow section. I took the 14 points available at pianostreet performance section, "A fresh perspective" thread, and am applying those principles to it. I am examining the overall structure so that I can demonstrate the mastery of the piece, and similar to Brahms, somehow convey the depths of emotion intensity in this piece, which are immense. It reminds me of the poem Invictus, talking about his "unconquerable soul" and that he is the "master of my fate" and the "captain of" his soul, no matter how hard chance, circumstance, and in this case, the horse, beat up him. This "drama of the soul" is something that I want to and I can give justice.

I wasn't at the technical level required beforehand, but I am now. What shocks me is that this journey seems to be something that the accomplished amateur (I am not going to be professional, sorry if you are) must go through, as a rite of passage. Now, I feel technically able to handle anything. Jumps, repeated notes, speed, rythmic accentuation, passagework, going up and down the keyboard, and others are conquered because I learned the Mazeppa. :lol: Chopin Etudes are where I plan to develop more technique, and I have learned only one of them :p.
I could never be satisfied playing only some of Liszt, I would feel compelled to learn [I]all
of it. (Although not recently practiced, I do know several of Liszt's pieces.) So now, I concentrate on Chopin (and Bach, Beethoven and Mozart) and composition. My plate is full. Scriabin, Liszt, Debussy, Scarlatti, Rachmaninoff and Shostakovich, et al., will come later.
Beethoven, Bach, and Liszt are the pillars of the repertoire. I agree that I have a similar future agenda
I listen to everything. My nighttime habit is to listening to recordings while following along with the score. When I finally play one of these well listened pieces, I'm so familiar with the sheet music and the melody, I learn it very quickly. Listening is a great form of practice, too often underestimated.
My great-grandmother, who was professional, often did this and told my mother, her student, to do it on pieces before/during learning it. Great advice and idea of visualization.
I read everything I can get my hands on. If it's a book about the piano, I've probably read it. Learning is a fountain of inspiration.

About the Chopin etudes, one day in May 2002, for no particular reason, I decided to learn them. At first, they were way beyond my ability. At the time, it seemed more likely for me to run a three-minute-mile, than to play these apparently impossible pieces. I felt the cruel hand of reality strike me down. I was afraid.

In the early months, I constantly, obsessively wondered what the outcome of this endeavor would be. Without a single second's respite, I talked myself into believing that, even though at that particular moment, I didn't know how, I could play them. Bypassing the hindering notion that I might not succeed, required a terrifying leap into the unknown.

I persisted; month after seemingly endless month; emotions ranging the full spectrum. Voratiously reading all things pianistic, my frame of mind gradually matured; from self-doubt to confidence, frustration to motivation, rage to euphoria, angst to peace, depression to joy. Armed with knowledge and courage, I pressed on.

Nearly two years into it, my pace quickend. After spending twenty months and hundreds of hours on the 10/1, I began learning other etudes. Over the next two years, I surprised myself by fairly well mastering all of opus 10, and part of opus 25. In June of 2006, I began work on the E minor concerto, and memorized it in only ten weeks. I'll begin work on his F minor concerto in June of 2007. I hope to have both concertos very well learned, if not mastered, by Fall 2009.
Wow, that's amazing

I now see myself as a developing Chopin specialist. My lifetime goal is to master all of Chopin. My decade-goal is to have all 27 etudes, 27(sic) preludes, four scherzos, four ballades, ten mazurkas, twenty-one nocturnes and two concertos truly mastered by Fall of 2010. If I can do that, and if my upcoming competitions go well, I'll have a repertoire capable of supporting at least a modest career in performance. At this point, the task at hand has shrunk to tangible proportions, thank God.
Wow. How old are you now?
Liszt will have his day.
:wink:

I plan to start Rachmaninoff's third when I head of to Medical School. Someone who learned it told me that it's the most incredible technical exercise imaginable and that there's nothing as difficult as it in existence, ignoring crazy people from 20th century.
As for my lifetime goal, I have several pages of works, but I would not choose one specific composer, as that has its limitations, but it works for some people. Good luck, and take care.

P.S. I'm 16 and I'll graduate from the University when I'm 18. Just for perspective.

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Postby MorrisseyMan on Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:39 pm

Ultimate Dream Piece(s):

Rachmaninov's Concerto in C Minor
Gaspard de la Nuit - Ravel
Rhapsody in Blue - Gershwin

Realistic:

Piano Concerto No. 15 in A Major (K414) - Mozart
Largo from Chopin's Sonata in B

Both by next year... The music course I am taking in my last year of high school requires me to do recitals, so I am learning these (amongst other pieces).
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Postby elvenpianist on Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:58 pm

mah current ultimate goal pieces (the goal, obviously, to play them as well as humanly (and elfily) possible)-

schumann: davidsbundlertanze, symphonic variations, kreisleriana
beethoven: emperor concerto and waldstein sonata
schubert- WANDEERRREERRRRRRRRRRRRR-fantasie! wooo!
bach: french overture, chromatic fantasy and fugue, etc.
Chopin: concerto no. 1, the complete mazurkas
liszt: NORMMMAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!! and mephisto waltz, and HR4 and HR6
rachmaninoff- 3rd PC
ravel- sonatine

and godowsky's transcription of the overture to die fledermaus.. lol. Die Fledermaus has the best overture ever. I want to conduct it someday.

I think I'm forgetting something crucial to the well-being of this elf, but eh, I can't remember lol.

-elf
~Clara Glennette Georgiana Fiorkapatti

"Those little weirdnesses... Schumann- QUIRKY!" -David Dubal

"I am convinced that Bach is the greatest genius who ever walked among us." -Douglas Adams
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Postby lol_nl on Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:32 pm

Dream list:
Rach 2 and 3, Tchaikovsky 1, Chopin Concerto
Schubert Sonata D. 960, Schumann Fantasy op. 17
All of Chopin's pieces, especially Fantasie-Impromptu, Barcarolle, Winter Wind Etude and some other works
Liszt Tarantella, La Campanella, etc.

Realistic:
Liszt Liebestraum no. 3 (already [almost] archieved)
Any Beethoven Sonata
Any work by Schumann, Liszt, Chopin or Schubert
A Rachmaninov Prelude or Etude-Tableau
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Postby Chocturne on Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:49 am

:DHi I'm a newb, I've only just started playing this year and I've only just started scales....but anyway my dream/goal/ULTIMATE pieces are my favourite Chopin Nocturnes: (and by favourite I mean OBSESSED with lol)
op.9 no. 1 B Flat Minor
op.9 no. 3 B major
op.15 no.2 in F Sharp Major
op.27 no. 1 C Sharp Major
op.72 no. 1 E minor
Nocturne in C Sharp Minor (from the Pianist)

I desperately want to be able to play them EXACTLY how Idil Biret interpreted them. She is brilliant, those are my aim but not just to play them but to play them PERFECTLY I dont' care if it takes me a lifetime!!!!!!!! I also love Baracolle, Berceuse and Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto no. 2
My realistic pieces and the ones I'm playing at the moment are Mozarts Turkish March and Valse Petit Chien by Chopin.......... : :oops:
Can anybody tell me if there is one stand out hard piece out of those...personally I reckon it would be no. 1 in C Sharp Major :obut I could be wrong.
Oh yeah Are there any specific excersises that would help the technical side specifically for nocturnes....?? And on a scale of 1-10 how hard are these pieces??
So close and yet so far.........
Nocturnes rule ALL!
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Postby nathf on Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:52 pm

Hi, welcome to the forums :)
Lord Chopin's nocturnes are generally (although there are some harder ones) not extremely difficult technically (when you compare them to the polonaises, ballades, etc.). They are more about interpretation than crazy speed/virtuoso power. I would probably recommend you learn some arpeggios to an alright level before getting at them. If you're prepared to put a lot of effort into them, learn ALL your: basic arpeggios, diminished, half diminished, dominant, etc. They will help you in the long run. Just don't give up on your goal, however difficult it may seem. You'll get there at some stage, probably sooner than you think if you're dedicated. :D
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