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Your Favorite Pianist

Discussion of legendary pianists, by whom the art of music has been so fantastically developed.
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Postby Max on Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:19 pm

Brewtality wrote:
Philip Daniel wrote:
Brewtality wrote:
Bregner wrote:RICHTER is the greatest pianists of all times !!
Any comments are useless.


Hofmann, Horowitz, Gilels, Cziffra, Cortot, Rachmaninoff etc > Richter :!:


Godowsky>Gieseking>Gould>Hoffman, Horowitz, Gilels, Cziffra, Cortot, Rachmaninoff et al>Richter :!:


I disagree. Once you get amongst the very best, any ordering is entirely subjective. I haven't listened to enough Richter to judge him fairly. It just annoys me when ppl make comments like "oooh you'll never hear someone better than X pianist"


Yeah, its entirely about tone and interpretion really. Once you're at the level of the evil #2 concerti, Brahms 2, Bartok 2, Prokofiev 2, etc, then I would be more impressed by a musical performance rather than a stupidly fast one.
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Postby Nocturneguy on Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:07 pm

I cant believe somepoeple say Cziffra or Richter...Where's cortot? he certainly doesnt have the huge "technique" (which all of u think it is only playing fast octaves or good double notes...) but he has probably the most MUSICAL mind of all the recorded pianists...his Chopin is unbeatable...even Horowitz admired him...but i stand like before, any person who really knows about piano will tell u that Horowitz is the best of all...Cziffra is only a circus entertainer in comparison...i have a lot more respect for Cortot, Horowitz, Rachmaninoff, and Rubinstein...
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Postby Max on Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:32 pm

It's totally subjective though. And depends what work you're refering too. And calling Cziffra a 'circus entertainer', even just by comparion, is pretty bad.
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Postby Brewtality on Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:04 am

If you give Cziffra a fair listen you'll find that there's much more to his pianism than mere pyrotechnics. He was very creative and I love listening to the way he adds new hues to oft-performed works. Cortot admired Cziffra even though their approaches were different. The thing about the greats is that they can't readily be compared to one another as they each offer a unique insight into the composers/works they are interpreting. Like Max said its entirely subjective but I personally admire individuality over staid banality.

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Postby Goldberg on Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:21 am

Don't bother, mates. Nocturneguy seems to be in a pattern of coming to the forum every month or two and randomly insulting someone who most of us like (for instance, Cziffra, Liszt, Cortot, whomever), trying to rile us up, and then leaving while failing altogether to provide any substantial evidence to support his claims. I respect his (NG's) opinions, but not the way he communicates them--and I don't agree with him at all.

I consider Horowitz a top-class pianist, but if I take as unbiased a view as I possibly can, I could never place him any higher than Cziffra, even though normally I would put Cziffra very far above Horowitz in my own preference. Horowitz was just as much about "flash" and "crowd-pleasing" as was Cziffra, and as far as I'm concerned he didn't do much beyond make certain pieces sound different than usual, but still make them sound very beautiful. As a pure musician, however, I would rank, for instance, Rubinstein or Lipatti or Michelangeli or...you get the idea, above Horowitz.

But, yeah, it is subjective which is why the thread is "who is your favourite pianist" and not "who is the best pianist." Really just a casual discussion...pianists shootin' the breeze over a billiards game.
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Postby Nocturneguy on Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:23 am

Goldberg wrote:Don't bother, mates. Nocturneguy seems to be in a pattern of coming to the forum every month or two and randomly insulting someone who most of us like (for instance, Cziffra, Liszt, Cortot, whomever), trying to rile us up, and then leaving while failing altogether to provide any substantial evidence to support his claims. I respect his (NG's) opinions, but not the way he communicates them--and I don't agree with him at all.


The reason I am not here often is because I am very busy...and no, I am not trying to insult u because u like cortot (he is my second favorite pianist)...i guess its all right if some of u prefer Cziffra above all others...that was just my two cents...u're right, Horo really does not rank Musically as high as Michelangeli or Rubinstein, but to think he is only a pianist is complete misunderstanding. He always felt "cursed" when people thought of him as only a pianist because of his fantastic technique.
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Postby Brewtality on Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:16 am

Nocturneguy wrote:The reason I am not here often is because I am very busy...and no, I am not trying to insult u because u like cortot (he is my second favorite pianist)...i guess its all right if some of u prefer Cziffra above all others...that was just my two cents...u're right, Horo really does not rank Musically as high as Michelangeli or Rubinstein, but to think he is only a pianist is complete misunderstanding. He always felt "cursed" when people thought of him as only a pianist because of his fantastic technique.


I strongly disagree, Horowitz was every bit as musical (if not more musical) than Michelangeli, Rubinstein, Cziffra et al. But thats just my opinion.

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Postby An!ma` on Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:18 am

Brewtality wrote:
Nocturneguy wrote:The reason I am not here often is because I am very busy...and no, I am not trying to insult u because u like cortot (he is my second favorite pianist)...i guess its all right if some of u prefer Cziffra above all others...that was just my two cents...u're right, Horo really does not rank Musically as high as Michelangeli or Rubinstein, but to think he is only a pianist is complete misunderstanding. He always felt "cursed" when people thought of him as only a pianist because of his fantastic technique.


I strongly disagree, Horowitz was every bit as musical (if not more musical) than Michelangeli, Rubinstein, Cziffra et al. But thats just my opinion.



Your opinion, which I share.
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Postby PianistSk8er on Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:39 am

An!ma` wrote:
Brewtality wrote:
Nocturneguy wrote:The reason I am not here often is because I am very busy...and no, I am not trying to insult u because u like cortot (he is my second favorite pianist)...i guess its all right if some of u prefer Cziffra above all others...that was just my two cents...u're right, Horo really does not rank Musically as high as Michelangeli or Rubinstein, but to think he is only a pianist is complete misunderstanding. He always felt "cursed" when people thought of him as only a pianist because of his fantastic technique.


I strongly disagree, Horowitz was every bit as musical (if not more musical) than Michelangeli, Rubinstein, Cziffra et al. But thats just my opinion.


Your opinion, which I share.


I also concur. ;)
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Postby Nocturneguy on Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:57 am

dang it, so this is what happens when one tries to not argue so flame war doesnt happen...i do really believe he is as highly musical, didnt say so because didnt feel like arguing anymore with goldberg...
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Postby Goldberg on Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:39 am

I apologise if I sounded as if I was trying to start an argument, Nocturneguy. I had based my opinions on a similar thing with you and Liszt a while ago, in which neither Erik (Helling) nor I thought you were being fair because you seemed to have listened to only a limited number of Liszt pieces--or rather, you had only *cited* a limited number of Liszt pieces.

Also, I tend to take any sort of "attack" (criticism) on Cziffra personally--I can't really explain why, I suppose. I even admit that, in reality, he wasn't the greatest pianist in his day--though my real "opinion" of him is that he was--and still is, the greatest.

And to make one last pathetic excuse I've had a rather extraordinarily bad week.

So, yeah, forget about what I said if you can. I am not going to be one associated with starting "flame wars."
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Postby Nocturneguy on Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:44 am

Apology accepted, hope u didnt take my comments harshly.
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Postby Max on Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:47 am

Brewtality wrote:If you give Cziffra a fair listen you'll find that there's much more to his pianism than mere pyrotechnics. He was very creative and I love listening to the way he adds new hues to oft-performed works. Cortot admired Cziffra even though their approaches were different. The thing about the greats is that they can't readily be compared to one another as they each offer a unique insight into the composers/works they are interpreting. Like Max said its entirely subjective but I personally admire individuality over staid banality.


Yeah, his Chopin is very creative and unique, but is still excellent (and his Chopin Sonata 2 is my favourite recording of it)
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Postby Goldberg on Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:25 pm

Yeah, I love that recording. His live Chopin is something else, too--and how about those etudes? He was very restrained with Chopin, and mentions in his autobiography something about reading something about Chopin by Liszt, and respecting those specific opinions (it's really an interesting passage, maybe I'll type it up later--more interesting than I make it sound, that is), inasmuch as he didn't fiddle around with the music and tried to play precisely to the text. Sometimes it works better than others, but let's just say even I think it's a good thing he stuck primarily to Chopin's "French" works like the impromptus, waltzes, scherzi, fantasy, and sonatas, rather than go into the mazurkas, rondos, polonaises (well, he did do several of those too, and actually his are very good), and so forth. Also, his Variations Brillantes is superb. I mean, really, I can't imagine a non-Cziffra admirer not liking that recording (live, from Karten I believe), it's just fantastic.
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Postby Amnesia on Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:05 pm

I have never heard a single recording by Cziffra. I guess my knowledge of different performers is limited to very few, especially regarding pieces by Chopin. I really don't have many different recordings by different pianists, I guess mainly because I like the ones I have so much.

With respect to Chopin, my entire collection of recordings is limited to Rubinstein and Ashkenazy (and some Cortot).. Guess I really should get some Horowitz, Cziffra, etc... Any suggestions?
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