pREluDE #17

[ruata]

Im learning this prelude, i think its really beutiful and you need to play it with a lot of techinique. The music its more than beutiful... what do you think fo this prelude, tips to play it, comments...?

[Fryderyk]

I like it alot, especially in the manner of Argerich.

[MindenBlues]

For me it is the most beautiful prelude of all.

Tips to play?
Take care for the 11 sf notes in the bass in the coda. There is a quote of how Chopin played it, in the Eigeldinger book "Chopin as seen by his pupils". According to that, Chopin played the 11 sf notes with equal strong force, even if the first bars are otherwise pp and with soft pedal played. As asked by his pupil, why he played it that way, he answered that it reminds him of a tower clock, clocking for the 11th hour.

If you have a grand piano with 3 pedals, try to use the sostenuto pedal for those mentioned bass notes. Unfortunately, mine has no sostenuto pedal.

When I play that prelude, I always need to think on this picture during the last bars.
If you like to listen (and criticize, if you like!) to my version, I posted it at ChopinSociety:

http://server3.pianosociety.com/protect ... chmidt.mp3

I think, I could have done more rubato on my take, and it is also not really error-free.

Take care to play the melody lines like a singer would sing, regardless whether the overall dynamics in the phrase is pp, p, or f or ff. The piece includes all that dynamic ranges.

[ruata]

Im agree with you, definitely a beutiful prelude, i heard your recording...is that an electric piano?...well played anyway, you really know how to play it, but your tempo its really intersting.You see, i have a record of this prelude, and martha argerich play it fast, not too fast but faster than you, so im playing it at that tempo but i find in yours an intersting speed in both hands and in the whole melody, i have to say this " i rather play in your tempo, thank you Minden Blues, I will take those points into consideration....and yes i have 3 pedals on my piano so i have to work on your advice...well the ranges, is easiest to my to play the FF section or F, i have problems with the last section PP, cuz i never play to soft...

[MindenBlues]

Thank you, Ruata. But nooooo, it is no electric piano, it is a restaured 70 year old Steinway model O (unfortunately with 2 pedals only).

I have also a recording of Cortot, he plays too much faster that prelude. I think, one should keep the melody always in mind. If I would record again, I would try to spent more rubato on suitable places.

Regarding pp and very soft playing...: In my opinion it is much, much easier to play loud instead soft. To expand the dynamics, it is often better to try to play softer on suitable places. Use the soft pedal for the last section, and additional try to play softer and softer each time you practise. That is a neverending, liftetime challenge. Often, pianos sound very beautiful if played soft but evenly. If played right, it will draw a listener closer to the piano, and they will honor that. Chopin must have been the real master in that.

Have fun with that beautiful prelude!

[PJF]

For me it is the most beautiful prelude of all.

Tips to play?
Take care for the 11 sf notes in the bass in the coda. There is a quote of how Chopin played it, in the Eigeldinger book "Chopin as seen by his pupils". According to that, Chopin played the 11 sf notes with equal strong force, even if the first bars are otherwise pp and with soft pedal played. As asked by his pupil, why he played it that way, he answered that it reminds him of a tower clock, clocking for the 11th hour.

If you have a grand piano with 3 pedals, try to use the sostenuto pedal for those mentioned bass notes. Unfortunately, mine has no sostenuto pedal.

When I play that prelude, I always need to think on this picture during the last bars.
If you like to listen (and criticize, if you like!) to my version, I posted it at ChopinSociety:

http://server3.pianosociety.com/protect ... chmidt.mp3

I think, I could have done more rubato on my take, and it is also not really error-free.

Take care to play the melody lines like a singer would sing, regardless whether the overall dynamics in the phrase is pp, p, or f or ff. The piece includes all that dynamic ranges.

Your research and determination to play the way Chopin intended this piece to be played shows. Excellent performance, IMO.

I'm hard-pressed to find major flaws. Obviously, you know which notes you missed, correct them. I would play more expressively with a greater emphasis on dynamic contrast. You succeed in this mostly, except...

In bars 23-36 and 51-60, I wanted to hear stronger fortes and more delicate pianissimos, a waxing and waning of emotion carried by the cresc. and decrecs. More cantabile in the bass would help. More harmonic contrast is needed in those sections.

Overall, increase the contrast in the left hand, but without causing an oom-pah-pah effect. It should be shaped something like this...in context with the dynamics and phrasing, of course. This represents three idealized two-bar phrases. I'm sure you can extrapolate the shape of the longer phrases from these.

You shaped bars 37-42 perfectly. Go back and listen to them. The phrasing was just right. Like this...

(1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6)(1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6)(1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6)


I felt sometimes you played more like this, 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

a couple of times, I heard this 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Not technically wrong, just slightly monochromatic at times.

In a word, shaping.

[MindenBlues]

Pete (PJF), thank you MUCH for taking time to listen and to comment my recording of this prelude. I printed your statement out and will try to incorporate your great tips next time I play this prelude. I did not take care much about the left hand dynamics in that piece, but will definitely take your tips into account.

Those kind of tips are invaluable, and show me what can be heard and accordingly, be played if one has more skilled ears than I have.

Thank you again, Pete!

[johnmar78]

Olaf, I just listened to your play. and its a good start. I also joined the Chopin society in australia last week......after 20 years...

Did you play this from memory. I still feel that (my own interpretation), a little build up in speed in the beginning-5-10% fatster. I felt I bit too slow.

By all means, with rubato playing and increase in speed and slow down within a same phase overall. This will make sound much better.
Please dnt take this as personal insult but rather a friendly advice.

I played this prelude. 15 years ago but as from memory I played a much faster than your version.
I dnt play this any more now.

I hope this helps

[MindenBlues]

Olaf, I just listened to your play. and its a good start. I also joined the Chopin society in australia last week......after 20 years...

Did you play this from memory. I still feel that (my own interpretation), a little build up in speed in the beginning-5-10% fatster. I felt I bit too slow.

By all means, with rubato playing and increase in speed and slow down within a same phase overall. This will make sound much better.
Please dnt take this as personal insult but rather a friendly advice.

I played this prelude. 15 years ago but as from memory I played a much faster than your version.
I dnt play this any more now.

I hope this helps

No, I did not play from memory. I glued the pages together, for no need to turn pages. But I memorized it almost completely beside some spots, so I almost only "stared" at the score.

I agree, it could be faster. However, I have a recording from Cortot (way faster), and it sounds a bit hectic to me. I do not care so much that most people play it much faster. This prelude has such a beautiful melody, what can shine also if played slower. But I realize that you, and others at PianoSociety.com too, niggled about the unusual slow tempo.

Regarding lack of rubato, this is really an issue in my recording. Again, the Cortot kind of rubato is too strong in my opinion, but I got your point here. I try to get better in that.

And no, those kind of comments I appreciate sooooo much, I never would treat it as offense! I do not have a teacher anymore (had it as child, 13 years long, but that is already 25 years ago...), and I value it very much if a piano player takes time to listen and giving constructive critiques.

I feel now, after those critiques, I should work again on it with all the tips giving here at ChopinMusic, and go for a better recording. Let's see, next time I got my piano tuned...

Thank you much, John!

You also put recordings on PianoSociety.com ?

[johnmar78]

thank pal. I am my owm teacher these days. My kids is doing grade three now -piano with me and she is only 7. My son will follow soon.

these days i am working on scheso op31, almost memorised. got last 3 pages to do. and walzte op42 and etude op10 no10.

I am getting the polonais op22 this weekend and will work on it.
All my reporories are used for my own interest and charity /fund raising ricitals for the church and hospitals. I do it for myself and just have a fun too.

Thanks for teeling me that you werenot played from memory, because I "thought" it sounded played from the score. In my own beleive. as from my last teacher-concert pianist. The only time you can focused on your music is when you can fully memorize it and just close your eyes and imaginaing the -musical sound coming out from your finger.....

I hope this helps...

feel free to talk to me. I have a God mother in Germany too. Kolborn.

[MindenBlues]

Thanks for teeling me that you werenot played from memory, because I "thought" it sounded played from the score. In my own beleive. as from my last teacher-concert pianist. The only time you can focused on your music is when you can fully memorize it and just close your eyes and imaginaing the -musical sound coming out from your finger.....

Oh, it sounded too like playing from the score

You are entirely right, and for the pieces I play by heart I have too the feeling to be able to focus much more on the music. Some pieces I too play with eyes closed, and I have to force myself from time to time to instead look at the keyboard because for a performance I would NOT close the eyes (I am not relaxed enough if there are listeners). Pieces I play blindly are: Fantaisie Impromptus, etude 25/1 from Chopin and several Bach WTC1 preludes.

Some say, only if one can play a piece by heart, one can fully understand the piece. I have to agree. Now I am working on Chopin 1st ballade g minor, hopefully some day I get it memorized too...

[johnmar78]

good work...and keep up.

[johnmar78]

just a joke,..remember the singer stevie Wonder....he is blind but still plays the keyboard....this is a special person with special sense...I can only close my eye ON CERTAIN time but not 100% occupied....

[PJF]

Don't speed up, your tempo is fine. No more rubato is needed, IMO. Just nuance.

[johnlink]

If you like to listen (and criticize, if you like!) to my version, I posted it at ChopinSociety:

http://server3.pianosociety.com/protect ... chmidt.mp3

Is it still available? When I click on the click I am redirected to http://pianosociety.com/cms/

John Link